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Post by paulstransitmk1 on Apr 20, 2016 7:32:36 GMT 1
Hello everyone
This is my first post to the forum as I am brand new to owning a classic vehicle and brand new to mechanics on a vehicle
I apologise if I am covering old ground
I want to increase the power in my MK1 Chassis Cab so that I can drive it like a modern car and almost become my primary travel vehicle. Plenty of power with an auto gearbox
I therefore was looking into what engine I should put in it and in the meantime came across a Focus ST170 engine and in my eagerness (and probably naivety) to make progress I bought it.
I then quickly continued to look for an auto gearbox and came across a 1998 Transit auto gearbox.
I didn’t consider did the combination of the 2 working and fitting together that now I fear do not.
The two mating faces seem to be completely different in size and shape so I am appealing to the group to see if this combination will work together or have I made a costly mistake in my early days.
Will it work with some modification or do I accept my costly inexperience and look for something else?
The engine is a 2003 Focus ST170
The gearbox is a 1998 Transit Part No RE97GT 7000 ED F
I will have to sub contract out the fitting of the gearbox to the engine, the fitting of the engine & gearbox into the transit, fitting of a new pedal box, fitting of all associated wiring of ECU etc but in the first instance need to know if I am heading down the right route
Many thanks in advance guys
Paul
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Post by sleepy on Apr 20, 2016 7:58:37 GMT 1
Welcome I'm not sure what engine the st has... is it a zetec or duratec? The zetec you can match up to an older ford gearbox but the duratec neefs an adapter plate which you can buy. if it's grunt you want then I would go for the ford cosworth V6
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Post by pk on Apr 20, 2016 8:23:17 GMT 1
Welcome along, the focus St 170 Bhp is a nice little powerhouse but getting it to run correctly is going to be challenging. The engines electrics will go in to what's called limp mode if it doesn't recieve the correct signals from all the sensors. This includes a speed sensor from the gearbox which is a big hangup. The best way round it is to run aftermarket electrics, lookup megajolt or megasquirt. The engine has no distributor so you need a timing ring for the crank sensor to set up electronic ignition for carbs (bike or webbers) or injection and you may need the dash clocks and ignition/immobiliser loom.
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Post by dodgerover on Apr 20, 2016 11:54:17 GMT 1
What transit is the auto box from? If it was from a turbo di with the epic pump it needs the engine ECU to shift..if it doesn't need an ECU but it's from a Di then it will need modifying as the shift points will be wrong for a petrol engine (that's from experience of trying to use a merc petrol auto box with a diesel - it wouldn't shift out of first)
A cossy and auto box has been done previously so the info is out there and can be made to run on a cut down loom.
However another suggestion would be the duratec v6 as found in rwd format in the S Type jag, it usually comes mated to an auto box, you can cut the existing loom down BUT you need to keep the instrument cluster and am not 100% sure what the auto box needs to see if you were to use megasquirt. If you are going to use it as a daily and working vehicle I would recommend LPG to make it easier on your pocket, jags are cheap as they like to rot...
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Post by FredTransit on Apr 20, 2016 13:14:28 GMT 1
Whilst I applaud you for aiming to use the Mk1 as daily transport, I assume you realised it is 60s technology and not a Sierra, let alone a focus. I can understand you wanting to uprate the brakes, I never get this 'drive it like a modern car' thing. Doing that will bring it's own issues. Given the Mk1 chassis cab weighs the square root of FA (compared to say a Mk6) putting a pinto in it will make it fly!! And for the record, I'm not a total purist. We have banana DIs in Mk2s, a pinto in a Mk1 and will happily convert the 67 minibus to a pedal box and servo in the near future. Safety is a good thing, but ECUs and sensors? No thanks.
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Post by retiredtruckie on Apr 20, 2016 21:48:06 GMT 1
Welcome, I would have gone with a v6 transit engine and box for more power
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Post by muttleymk2 on Apr 20, 2016 22:19:47 GMT 1
I have to say honestly that a Mk1 will never drive like a modern car, it's steering is heavy and unresponsive, the springs are agricultural and the interior fittings and dash are basic to say the least. You can fit IFS and power steering but the rear axle is pretty much unalterable. The St engine is suited to a 1200 kg hatch back and not a 1500kg brick, If you need get up and go then any of Fords bigger V6's is your best bet with their associated auto boxes but be ready for a lot of electrical work and much fabrication
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Post by jonochap on Apr 20, 2016 22:28:02 GMT 1
Welcome PTM, as the yocal said when asked for directions, if I was going there I wouldn't start from here...I'm not sure you can make a daily driver even with a pinto but it's a great ambition and I wish you the very best of luck. Plenty of people on here like to help
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Post by conrod on Apr 20, 2016 23:03:35 GMT 1
ST170 is a Zetec engine, so bellhousing bolt pattern will be the same as any old Ford 4 cylinder. Sierra auto box would probably be the easiest to hook up? As far as a speed signal from the gearbox goes, you would just need to emulate what the Focus gearbox sent to the ECU, ie. so many counts per output shaft revolution, using the correct type of sensor (probably hall or magnetic) Not sure if the ST170 used an engine ECU that required inputs from other systems/ECU's on the car, possibly an anti-theft, but hopefully nothing else. I would investigate using the original electronics/ECU before ditching it. Good luck and keep us posted!
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Post by paulstransitmk1 on Apr 21, 2016 9:55:21 GMT 1
Thanks everyone Some great information here and some daunting stuff Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way round as jonochap suggests Although I have already bought an engine and gearbox, its best not to start from here even if I have to take a loss on the items already purchased If starting from scratch with the following brief, what would you guys put in (please remember that I am not very technical as far as doing the work myself and therefore my budget will be smaller than most as I have to contract out most of the work) Brief: I want a replacement engine with plenty of power in it so that I can drive it (like a car) meaning I can keep up with any motorway traffic and also have the power to keep up with any car around town. Good acceleration and an auto box are essential. I wouldnt be interested in doing a LPG conversion and MPG are not a primary worry for me. Having the right vehicle is the most important point As explained I already have an ST170 engine with ECU and wiring loom and a RE97GT 7000 ED (A4LD?) gearbox Can I use any of these parts? Some people mention that this gearbox should fit to any Ford engine but from my limited knowledge I would say that it needs a different bell housing to mate the two items. Would this gearbox fit to my ST170? www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262385285326?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITThanks in advance guys and sorry to be a pain Paul
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Post by paulstransitmk1 on Apr 21, 2016 9:59:48 GMT 1
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Post by sleepy on Apr 21, 2016 11:31:21 GMT 1
Mate.... you're not a pain The 4/5 transit van came with a auto box on the back of a pinto that ive seen on ebay in the rwcent past, that should fit on the back of a zetec. I would personally go for an aftermarket ignition system. you may have to change your rear diff ratio depending what you've already got to get a good motorway speed. keep asking question's till you you have all the info you need
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Post by conrod on Apr 21, 2016 11:47:41 GMT 1
Here are some specs. I found on another website for the ST170 engine: At its heart is a tuned version of the 130PS 2.0-litre Ford Focus Duratec engine, producing 170PS at 7000rpm and 195Nm of torque from 2500rpm. That is considerably more power and torque than a 2.0 Pinto engine makes, and will have much better fuel economy to boot! I think it would be a great choice of engine! Parts to convert these to run as a RWD engine, such as engine mounts, water manifold etc. are available from the likes of Burton Power. Loads of these engines have been fitted to Escorts & Cortinas over the years, so there should be plenty of information around regarding transplanting one of these engines. The 2.9 autobox will not fit your engine. But the DOHC 2.3 box will, or at least the bellhousing will bolt up. You will need a flexplate from a Zetec auto engine too, whether the torque converter will match up is another thing? But it is an electronically controlled box, so you will need to investigate how it was controlled, either by the engine ECU from that car, or a separate ECU, and how feasible it is to make that side of it work behind your Zetec engine. One advantage it would have over an earlier 3 speed Sierra or Cortina (non electronic) auto box is that it has four speeds, and fourth is probably an overdrive, meaning you may not have to find a taller diff ratio. 4.4 would probably be about right as far as a diff ratio for an overdrive box. I think the choice of auto box will be crucial though to your conversion though, if you can get a 4 speed to work it will make it a much better conversion than an old C3 3 speed. Possibly an better option would be to get a complete Cosworth 2.9 24V V6 and matching auto box from a Scorpio, fit a diesel front to your Mk1, , and jam that lot in. Everything will be compatible, it will have plenty of power, reasonable fuel economy, and make a really nice noise! The electronics should be much easier too. I have found plenty of info on the interweb about the electronic side of things. BOA engine sounds easier to do, but BOB still possible from memory using original Ford ECU. Most important thing on a project like this is to plan everything before you start, and sounds like you are doing this already
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Post by paulstransitmk1 on Apr 21, 2016 11:48:18 GMT 1
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Post by sleepy on Apr 21, 2016 11:52:16 GMT 1
Thats a diesel engine.... I don't think that will bolt up to a petrol
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